My name is Sandra Bucci. My sister Tati and I, we are two of the youngest Holocaust survivor from Italy. So everywhere she goes, she takes the, the rocks and then now that she lives in America, she brings them from where she lives. I saw *** stone. I take not only in Sacramento, in San Francisco. Everywhere. That's why I, I do it. I don't know if that's why my mom does it. But when we went to my grandmother's grave, that's what we did. We had the stones and we did it because we wanted part of us now to be there with her. You've done so many of these memory trips, I think. Uh almost 40 40 trips. Yeah, that's *** lot of students. Why is it so important to do them? They're not easy. Per uh just to que an uh per just to Pere my Lord Cardano. Si so Previti uh re Grande Grande Fredo. It wasn't such *** huge leap of the imagination for Italians to also join in and participate in the persecution of Jews. It was sophisticated and planned and industrialized. How did, how did Children survive? I, I don't know, maybe I was more strong. We become the witnesses, you know. Um, when you're here with me, you're doing it with me. Um But when I'm gone, then you're doing it for me. Seeing it in real life is much more impactful than just setting it in the book. So I really wanted to come here and experience it for myself. Oh my God. Every time she tells her story, there's new things. There's something you've never heard before, whether you were at Auschwitz or another camp, you became *** number. You became *** thing in nec. Say cuatro tore your mother seemed to know why they would put *** tattoo on you and refer to you by number and she told you something very important about your own name. What is it? She told you? Yes. Always remember your name. So. Hi. Hi. Mhm. Yeah. We applied at the beginning of August and then she had her test in December. She was nervous for that one too. This obligation. Really? Ok. Without, oh, I'm super excited. Oh, yes. Yes, I sleep. *** very poco limo this night because I was very excited. You what? So here it's like *** picture. It looks like an inmate picture. It's, it's terrible. I don't think I am. I am as ***, *** normal person. I think she person and not special. I am not special. *** lot of people would disagree with that, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe, I don't know. But for me. I, everything is normal. Yeah. OK. I'm gonna go ahead and throw this on you. We can put it right here since you have *** sweater. I don't have to, to share their story. Dominic, when is your date? Anytime you can have someone that was there who's experienced it? Speaking about their experience is always gonna have more power than *** book or *** movie. Always. So this is, um, she is *** Holocaust survivor. She's going to kill us her story. Through her daughter, Tatiana. I knew about my mom's story forever. Of course, like Sonia, we knew it because you know, they have the number on the arm. You ask, um I've always been interested in the holocaust carefully during school because we never really had much time to go over that lesson. The lesson was always maybe *** day, an afternoon, an hour, maybe just *** reading about it. And I always wanted to go more into it. So to learn my grandmother's story, I first got interested in it when I was over there for *** summer vacation in elementary school. So this is *** book by Andre and Tatiana Bucci. Um Always remember your name. *** true story of family and survival in Auschwitz. Ours is *** long story and it begins far away. Our parents me under *** clock tower in fume the way young people did in those days. And as perhaps they still do today, *** Lora Nata Prima Logic, Mia Sore nata se Dino de Sere de Mi Trenta. *** nata Prima DCI. Trent. *** few men. D Dante, the Sun is 1940. All of these are before this all are before. Yeah, these are all before zero hour strikes. The first shots of the new World War are fired at Wester Daily. Berlin's blitzkrieg spreads debt and destruction from the skies for our leader that will talk to. He is *** pa our real challenge is to carry these stories forward and inspire students to make the stories their own, carrying these stories of the survivors on to their Children and grandchildren. When the war begins on September 1st 1939 and they quickly marched into Poland very soon. They put restrictions on Jews. What we do know, right is that in this first stage of the war that we have been speaking about, there was no uh policy of ethnic cleansing. My name is she, this is my 12th year at Chapman University. I'm chair of the history department. And so so the idea being that sort of if you could go back in time and change one little thing, it would probably have *** very big effect, right. Mussolini had come to power in 1922 and Italy was *** dictatorship. And so any executive decision was by the fascist regime and this was no different Mussolini had racial theorists who put together these laws, some of them were inspired by the German race laws because Germany had passed its Nuremberg laws in 1935 3 years earlier. But I start to in front of starting it so that I go back in the non non Lo Ricardo Pica Maine Marico photograph que mama chifa salut Tule sere Prima di da bop per Capito. Quee *** DEA las preto de de de papa and Gisela who that summer had come to fun with our cousin Sado decided not to return to Naples since her husband wasn't there anyways. So we became *** single nuclear family without the two sailors, our father and uncle who were imprisoned far away. So the Nazi Ss Einat group and the mobile killing squads into the Ukraine and other other areas. It's one bullet per person is, you know, not efficient. One night the fascist and the German came to get them. It was night, it was dark and there was *** lot of noise, they knocked the door, they came in. My family was scared, just imagine she was four years old. How would you feel at four years old if somebody comes shouting in your house? Uh chaves te niente, no pain soa doci. They take us to the rice mill, the big rice Husking factory built in the late 19th century in the trieste neighborhood of San Saba. Certainly the eight of us are all together and we stay together in the cell that is assigned to us as soon as Germans came into Italy. In September 43 they started to round up Jews in every major city and load them onto freight cars and send them northwards to Auschwitz, Auschwitz, the symbol of Hitler. Thy whom here the Germans had set up an immense experimental laboratory of fascism. *** factory of death. We organize every year. The travel for the memory or Mio de la memoria in Italian means to travel for the Lary. You've done so many of these memory trips, I think. Uh almost 40. So is this dressing for Italy right here or is this everything Costa? No, this is only, this is for all Italy and uh Poland for so um no, no that importance. Ala memo de Bambini. Pero Queria tame. *** no per consider to uh an storage chair. La memoria de Bambini. No memoria. 40 trips. Yeah, that's *** lot of students. Why is it so important to do them? They're not easy. Pero Sosa Pere loque su you doing? They're impressive dinner at eight and ready in the lobby at six. We do two kisses here. All the trips start in Rome. Everybody meets in Rome. This one. Yes, that the one in Tuscany starts in Florida. So every year, more than almost 20 years that we have been organizing this kind of traveling. So tell us who's here. So this is my aunt Pat. Hello, Victor. And and the purpose is to bring the students as an agreement between the union of Jewish communities in Italy with the Ministry of Education and to bring them directly to the places where the horrifying events of the show happened. I just put it in my heart. She has *** lot of memories and *** lot of ideas and it's all together. So, she's excited about you guys being here. She's, she, she couldn't relax. I suppose you have another shoes for beer canal boots. Yeah, he'll need warm things, won't he? Yes, I know. What is the impact of having Andre and Tatiana leading these tours hearing their story. They were very, very little by then. There were four and six and it's very, very, very, very rare that someone can survive because Children were used for experiments. So they are the exception that survived somehow. Our arrival is mostly noise. It's April 4th 1944. The train stops outside the camp we're being taken to which we later found out is the giant death Factory in the concentration camp system of Auschwitz. Even though we study the holocaust *** lot. And our schools really put *** lot of importance on it. Seeing it in real life is much more impactful than just studying it in the books. So I really wanted to come here and experience it for myself. What do you think about tomorrow? What are your thoughts? Well, I think it's gonna be *** very emotional experience. I don't really know how most of us will react to it emotionally because maybe it won't even hit us like immediately and then reflecting back on to it later through the day, it's gonna settle in more in our brains. Ya, Araba, Intan, Los Pio, Alulu quantity. There are cries of fear as well because dogs are barking and growling because orders are given in German and almost no one understands them. There's tremendous confusion and *** ghostly scene of chaos at Sobibor Treblinka. There was no selection. At least when you arrived at Auschwitz, you had *** *** chance, right? If you did look like you could work, you might be spared. And Altra Pero de la prima sere the CIA perche salva Per Ch Bambino. Uh that should be Canal Poisson Ma so different from the men. So in vista experimental where would Andre have arrived? The her the track, the train tracks didn't arrive here yet when she arrived. So the train tracks are about two miles that way, two kilometers that way. E cheque soo per la mama re una vic una Dere Unin pine, Tiao la and Questo caja que di Matoni. Uh Ev Emano, Zana Doqui Intra in Campo Dove Parato Percos. Our barrack is near the entrance of the camp we enter and our immediate impression is that it's huge. It's rectangular in shape like the ones that we can still be seen today at Beer Canal. This is not my idea. My area was uh oh and another place and we have not the Barrack because my Barrack was within the wood, not the BB and it was destroyed. My Lord. Record. No, si so Su uh Fredo. Grande Grande Fredo, you just walk through. I guess the gates of hell. Somebody can say, I don't know, but it's just so different. Heavy and, and to me even gets colder, she's always cold 100 degrees outside and she has *** sweater on, the cold is being sucked into her. I don't think that the cold will ever get out of her bones. What were days like for the very few Children at Auschwitz Carso Meo CVA Torno. I, you know the pira Caian Kim Ks *** bar uh in I could in turn with the nib which is the building. That last night she was talking about where she got the the number disinfected and where she got her numbers per devi la Tua era, whether you're at Auschwitz or another camp you became, you became *** number, you became *** thing in the nec. Say cuatro to your mother seemed to know why they would put *** tattoo on you and refer to you by number. And she told you something very important about your own name. What is it? She told you? Yes, always remember your name. One day your mother stopped visiting. What did you think? Fao Canon Venice? Uh Nona creo Una in, in Mazzarella. Me un un grande. Do grande de la natura fo que tu the cresa 1890 for *** mache grande uh Fita la Manana de la visited the Rama. So this is my great grandfather's uh cooking book that he got to help him learn how to cook as *** prisoner of war. So my senior project originally, I wanted to do *** cooking video or cooking lesson or something like that. But I kinda wanted to be in her shoes, understand what she had gone through. So, what I wanted to do was kind of live *** week in her life as *** Holocaust survivor. And then the biggest part was that my grandmother was my Glauco. The block Cova took *** liking to you and your sister. How did you know that? Marios Prezo Que Pore Leda Tono de familia as Corsa, the Man de Divers soa de VRE Di Paldo. But you saw some black do some pretty awful things. And I remember when we were at the camp, you talked about bricks, Gen Con Karina Con. But Brown had little troubles and that's where the Bko made the um put women in punishment. They would have to kneel and they would have to hold *** brake on each end and kneel as long as the Bokova wanted to. And your cousin Sergio was with you in the barracks too. No, in Italian. So there was *** time where the gloo told him tomorrow, they're gonna ask you if you wanna go see your mom. You have to say no, don't tell anybody what I told you. Um If you guys remember, I told you, Sergio was in the door cousin who was six years old was in the barracks with them. So they told him this is what's gonna happen tomorrow. You need to say no cheap food or not. All I Bambini is of *** re Kwan said first the Sergio I know just called that but hey, I Bambini. So no part purple JV, Nove November D Cuanta Cuatro de Compo dears to be saved. Lives of millions of concentrate in. So Cambiano, *** Cambia la gente Camina per Campo que Campo Chiso de military Clovis military chip. No elo prima cro cha in particular p you said around me and I've been here for five years. Europe was *** vast prison. Yet nothing equaled the atrocities of auch aching from concentration camp up with the rooting light of *** candle and uh showed um laying down on the floor. Um How do you select the students who will be *** part of this experience? So this special project is how we started the show up through *** project of art. Like this is mine. It's beautiful. It was like the part of the, the book of uh Re Mole, you know, and my part was uh when they were in the wagon, you know, and like one of the, it was night. So one of the just like lit up *** candle. It's like it really stirs you up on the inside and you don't really even know what you're feeling right then and there. But yeah, it's something that you're, I'll probably always remember. I think we're at an interesting juncture in terms of where we get our knowledge from and what weight we attribute to it. The holocaust is not what happened. Let's look at the facts of that. And Hitler has *** lot of redeeming qualities. I don't believe in the 6 million number. I don't believe in the gas chambers thing. It's when work isn't peer reviewed that we start getting distortions. And unfortunately, again, with *** I, those distortions sort of blow out of proportion because they are, they are forked in so many different places. So I think it's not so much of the source that worries me. It's whether people have the capacity to question those sources. I teach 7th and 8th. So, and I've taught, um, eighth grade for the last 10 years here. Her father was Italian and he was *** sailor. My grandmother was *** seamstress in Italy. They teach specifically the holocaust. Do you think we do enough? I don't think we teach history enough whether it's uh the *** genocide or not, or thinking about our actions critically. Um We just don't, well, technically, again, it's not in our States standard. So it's not something we're required to teach, but we add it in as part of what we teach Campo to know that this person stood in front of Doctor Joseph Mendeley and at any time he could have said off to the crematoria. It's chilling. It's um, it's special, it changes it because this is someone who is part of history and they survived that history. Not *** good video, but I ask you. Yeah, I gra so these students are all 1213 years old. Yes, 13 years old, 1314 years old at this age. What is your goal with high education? What do you want to socialize? We want the respect. They learn to respect each other. And of course, what is it like to have? The Children stare so intently at you as you're talking, she appreciates that they're quiet and listen. She appreciates the question because they mean they listen and they want to know more. You can tell that they're listening. Can't you let me just, why did you pretend to not be *** Jew before this all happened? All Jews had to register. So everybody that was going to the synagogue had to register. So they know they knew them, they knew their name, they knew who they were. The thats when you last. Absolutely. Yes. Not so much of the body but her food. She will not eat certain food. She eats the portion of *** bird. I mean she's her relationship with food is really bad. Not Guada sa M de Guelo Questa Questa Sueno. Um Perello, que ri Guard Dame Elo Toja Prima Tuti Bambini que moo an Agaz Miano Miano. So Frere per secon Dome, Tuti Bambini del Mondo and Rito de diventa poo. It should be recognized that in Germany, very serious attention is paid to the story of Nazism, greater attention is paid there than in Italy where with *** few exceptions, it is concentrated mainly in the week of Holocaust remembrance day because you historic per Mo which is from *** P and allow us to buy this. I just asked him the same thing that she asked him the year before that Italy needs to admit that they were on the wrong side and she's hoping that before she dies, Italy would apologize to her and tell them we were in the outside. You've talked about some of the myths that are associated with Italy's role with World War Two and the treatment of the Jewish people in Italy. One of the myths is the good Italian. What is the good Italian? It, it has different variations but in, in one variation, it's that Italians never really wanted the war, they never really wanted any uh racism and it was Germany who dragged Italy into it. They, they, they need it. It's that young people know. I don't know. I don't know because they think the Italian people is *** good people but they, they are good and no good. Like every, everybody, every I I in the, in the, in the, in the world and historians like me who have looked at the persecution of Jews in Italy and have shown just how brutal it was. So, it's *** myth. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny. But, um, it does exist. Do you think you will ever get the apology? I hope. But, uh, it's very difficult to, but I don't know when you were saying Italy still hasn't apologized. Do you think it's our duty to right the wrongs that were sort of made in the past or at least learn from them and oh my gosh, million dollar question, the quick answer is yes. Is it our duty? Absolutely. It's our duty to speak up about what has gone wrong. It's hard because then you're taking away part of history. Like should Jefferson be, you know, seen as *** great president or because he wasn't, he had slaves and you know, do we give him grace? Because that was the times. Do we give people grace? Because the holocaust was part of the times? No. So who decides? So that's where it started? It ended for some people, but it started for some people, right? You brought rocks from Sacramento. Yeah, for the park, Sacramento River. Uh Every, every corner when I go to work I saw *** stone I take uh not only in Sacramento in San Francisco everywhere, but we all do it. We all do it. Even my son Joshua. If it is *** pretty stone, we'll pick it up and put it in *** Ziploc bag. So the next time we go to, to Europe, we have it sometimes when she goes to Auschwitz, she brings her stone for, um from here, uh and puts them in Auschwitz too because of the, the Jewish division. When you go in the cemetery, you put in the tomba, the, the stone, this is *** l she read your present, you, your visit and the stone not *** consumer, They don't disappear like flowers, they don't die. They stay there. Going there to me was closing the circle and bringing, you know, the stones from here is bringing *** little part of me there to be with whoever is there. Among the 2819 liberating ait inmates, there were 100 and 80 Children, 52 of them were under eight years of age. How could they survive this? Hell? I mean, how did, how did Children survive? I, I don't know, I don't know why. Maybe I, I was more lucky than maybe I was more strong. *** lucky I have the staff for the protection. The plan of the camp, the situation plan of the crematoria from 10 to 12,000 bodies were burned daily. In the five crematoria. There was *** lot of damage done toward the end of the war just in panic on the Nazis part too. Right. Absolutely. And trying to burn, you know, for one hand, they were meticulous record keepers and then on the other hand, they tried to destroy us as much as they could in the back 20 kg 22 kg. The bandit tore out dentures from corpse's mouth to get hold of those teeth. The potato Aragao Dirac que como ba theta *** grande piccoli, *** dove party. Uh Beco Micho that it's the, the first time that they were felt safe there. She doesn't remember the languages anymore, but she has *** little song that she learned while she was in the orphanage. Uh No, no beso paura, the responder era such as so in Tara and no link field can is Cerana Freud de la fia de Sigmund Freud CAA Fonda to Centro Dirac Per Bambini. Bre sopra Viti, I camped Mino in *** cost in Lingfield. We began to live again there. We finally recovered our childhood which have been lost and stolen. It was wonderful, an indelible memory. One of those memories that stays with you make you nostalgic but are also very comforting. I think it saved my mom life. Going there is what gave her some stability and gave her time to get back into society, right? So the way they wash them the way they have people, you know care about them. No, no DeVos Delao Rama Casa era comme Tora Casa Perra Tal or can I Tuto? Que no Pote, no man Caba. N after all this time, she can tell that Lingfield was happiness and it's still happiness. No N no matter you e uh uh Trova. No, Lindi Rizzo. You know Je de Ino de la di Praga and you started writing letters to your parents and drawing pictures uh that trip back to Italy. What do you remember about that to start to be foda via Pungo Pero Ferrovia bomb vato be via L in Treno. Is that the train station to the right there? You and your sister? Yes. In this is in Victoria station in London. Is that on your way back to Italy? Oh, that's the the bonnet and the balls. This is my dog and this is in the purse and you still have them after all these years. Good night de La Nostra Barra camera de la barca de Leon. Uh Apa Cheon is Sergio. 20 kids, 10 female, 10 male. Sergio is the hardest part of telling your story, isn't it? So the kids came forward, they were put on *** cart and they were sent to Hamburg to another to another camp. I'm sorry, I always get emotional here. 1945 on the night of April 20 as Esman murdered 20 Jewish Children in the school basement where there was this place where the Children were taken. This doctor, the one of the Children wanted to make experiments on how tuberculosis spread. They were injected tuberculosis. They were, they did *** bunch of bunch of stuff. And then the day before the Americans freed the camp, the doctor in April, the, the, the, the doctor said came and came and killed them. All the kids were so he hanged them. But most of the Children were so thin that they were not dying. They were not so uh *** soldier was going around and pulling them down. As I said, 20 kids died this way. And now in Germany, every 20th of April, that's *** ceremony to remember in these Children. Uh Tomorrow we go to the theater for, to give the memory to the Tuscany school for the students. But when I, but it's uh it's difficult for me because everything come come, come and another time so quickly. So it's not easy to remember because sometimes Vicento como, she feels like she's back there. We have studied these kinds of things. People have taught us the value of memories and the value of remembering these events and not taking them lightly. So we recognize the importance of what we were seeing. Uh bee and non intelligent mail families were looking for their relatives, mostly Children. I don't want the story to die. Not the story, I'm sorry, story to die. It's too easy for people to forget to, to put it under the rug and say, ah, not touch it because they don't wanna think about something that is hurtful for people. They just wanna say, yeah, it happened but not really. It wasn't that bad what I would like. And I, I think I saw the Bucci sisters saying this very thing. And I was just so thrilled because this is like this is my dream. My dream is not that we get rid of sources like Wikipedia. My, my hope for humanity is that we learn to critically evaluate those sources. I think unfortunately, for whatever reason, *** lot of younger people hear the word history and think boring and think of it in terms of chronology, which is not what history is. History is story. Speaking about our experience, testifying about it is crucial for us because we'll hope that it will be useful to the young. Our conviction is that even if one of those students has really understood, it'll be right to have given our testimony. Yeah, you started so many lives in fume and Fair Canal and Czechoslovakia and Lingfield back to Teresa. And now you live here in Northern California dive. Oh, I used to go around on Wednesday night and she would complain that I was, you know, leaving every Wednesday night and be gone for so long. And somebody said, well, just take her with us. It's funny how you can be in *** big group of people like you were in the marathon that day with your mom running and everybody is kind of suffering, but you don't really know what the person next to you has been through or what they're all about when you're out and about here in Elk Grove or, you know, you're shopping, you're doing whatever. People just met your mom. If they ever have any idea what her background is, they wouldn't know. But most people, no, they, they, they don't. How long will you continue these memory trips? J Quiano re Fre Park V Cuando. La la la la Mia. Salute Melo per meter.