PEOPLE SAY THEY’RE GRAPPLING WITH POOR MENTAL HEALTH, AND U.S. SURGEON GENERAL VIVEK MURTHY IS BLAMING, IN PART, SOCIAL MEDIA. ACCORDING TO HIS OFFICE, 95% OF TEENS AGES 13 TO 17 REPORT USING SOCIAL MEDIA, AND A THIRD SAY THEY USE IT ALMOST CONSTANTLY. THAT WAS THE CASE FOR LOGAN LANE AND JAMESON BUTLER, TWO TEENS GROWING UP IN NEW YORK CITY GLUED TO THEIR SMARTPHONES UNTIL ONE DAY THEY DECIDED TO GIVE THEM UP. THEY FOUNDED THE LUDDITE CLUB, A SMARTPHONE FREE GATHERING OF THEIR PEERS. LOGAN AND JAMESON RECENTLY JOINED ME IN STUDIO TO TALK ABOUT LIFE AS A TEENAGER, WITH A FLIP PHONE AND THE DOCUMENTARY THAT’S IN THE WORKS TO TELL THEIR STORY. TELL ME HOW YOU WERE FIRST INSPIRED TO SAY, WE’RE JUST NOT GOING TO HAVE SMARTPHONES IN OUR LIVES. IT WAS COVID. WE WERE BOTH REALLY ADDICTED TO OUR TECH, PARTICULARLY OUR PHONES, SOCIAL MEDIA, AND WE KIND OF JUST WASTED AWAY THE COVID DAYS, DEPRESSED IN OUR ROOMS. EIGHT NINE HOURS OF SCREEN TIME EVERY DAY. DID YOU FEEL THAT HAVING THAT SMARTPHONE WAS MAKING COVID WORSE FOR YOU? IN SOME WAYS? YEAH, IT WAS ALMOST LIKE SELF-DEPRECATING TO BE LOOKING AT ALL THESE PEOPLE ONLINE GOING ON RUNS, DOING ALL THESE THINGS. IT JUST MADE ME FEEL WORSE ABOUT MYSELF. AND YEAH, IT DEFINITELY MADE COVID A LOT HARDER. WHAT WAS THE REACTION WHEN YOU STOPPED USING YOUR SMARTPHONE? SO IMMEDIATELY FROM OUR FRIENDS? A LOT OF THEM REFER TO US AS KIND OF FALLING OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH, BECAUSE WE WEREN’T ON SOCIAL MEDIA. I REMEMBER JAMESON SAYING, SOME PEOPLE WOULDN’T TEXT HER ANYMORE BECAUSE THE TEXTS WERE GREEN. YEAH, OTHER PEOPLE WERE REALLY SUPPORTIVE. THEY REALLY LIKED WHAT WE WERE DOING AND FINALLY SOME OF OUR PEERS WERE A LITTLE JUDGMENTAL. THEY DIDN’T LIKE THAT. IT SEEMED LIKE WE WERE KIND OF TELLING THEM HOW TO USE THEIR TECHNOLOGY, WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO, SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE BOTH FOUND IS ALMOST LIKE PULLING OUT OUR FLIP PHONES. I THINK SOME PEOPLE FELT ALMOST LIKE UNDER ATTACK, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE I KNOW AT SCHOOL ARE SPENDING EIGHT, NINE HOURS A DAY ON THEIR IPHONES. SO FOR ME TO, YOU KNOW, VERY VISIBLY TAKE A STANCE AGAINST THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL PERSONALLY ATTACKED BY THAT WHICH IS NOT WE HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF THAT AT ALL. BUT I THINK I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING WRONG WITH SPENDING, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN HALF OF YOUR TIME AWAKE ON YOUR PHONE. ULTIMATELY, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY? IS THERE A BIGGER UPSIDE THAN A DOWNSIDE? YEAH, 100%. AND ALSO LIKE THE INTERNET AND ALL THE SOCIAL MEDIA APPS ARE SO SELF-REFERENTIAL THAT LIKE GETTING AWAY FROM IT. I DIDN’T NEED TO BE A PART OF IT. I DIDN’T UNDERSTAND ANY OF IT, AND I DIDN’T NEED TO BECAUSE I DIDN’T NEED TO ENGAGE IN THAT CONVERSATION ANYMORE. I THINK ULTIMATELY IT COMES DOWN TO NOT WHAT WE’RE AGAINST, BUT REALLY WHAT WE’RE FOR. WE’RE FOR OFFLINE HOBBIES. WE’RE FOR READING, GETTING OUTSIDE SPENDING QUALITY TIME WITH PEOPLE, SOCIALIZING OFF THE SCREEN. AND WE’VE REALLY LOST TOUCH WITH THAT AS A GENERATION. AND TO RECLAIM THOSE THINGS IS REALLY POWERFUL. SO YOU STARTED THIS LUDDITE CLUB. WHAT DOES THE CLUB DO? IT’S OPEN TO EVERYONE, AND IT’S BASICALLY JUST A PHONE FREE ENVIRONMENT THAT’S DEDICATED TO HELPING PEOPLE FORGE BETTER RELATIONSHIPS WITH THEIR TECHNOLOGIES. CAN PEOPLE BE VARIOUS STAGES OF LUDDITE? OH YEAH, THERE ARE LOTS OF LUDDITES WHO STILL HAVE IPHONES AND EVERYBODY TAKES KIND OF A DIFFERENT MEASURE. SOME PEOPLE TURN THEIR PHONES. IT’S INTERESTING INTO BLACK AND WHITE MODE BECAUSE THEY FIND WITHOUT ALL THE COLORS, THEY’RE A LOT LESS COMPELLED TO PICK UP THEIR IPHONE. SOME PEOPLE SET TIME LIMITS ON THEIR SCREEN TIME, SOME PEOPLE DON’T TAKE IT WITH THEM OUT OF THE HOUSE SOMETIMES. SO EVERYBODY’S KIND OF AT A DIFFERENT STAGE FIGURING OUT WHAT WORKS BEST FOR THEM. SO NOW THERE’S A DOCUMENTARY IN THE WORKS. WHAT’S THE STORY YOU WANT TO TELL THROUGH THE DOCUMENTARY? THROUGH THE DOCUMENTARY, WE WANT TO GIVE PEOPLE HOPE. WE WANT TO GIVE THEM A SOLUTION. WE WANT TO TELL A GREATER STORY ABOUT THIS PROBLEM OF TECH ADDICTION. AND TEEN MENTAL HEALTH THROUGH A MORE POSITIVE LENS THAN A LOT OF THE DOCUMENTARIES IN THIS FIELD HAVE PROVIDED. WE LOOK AT OUR CLUB AND WE SEE AN ANSWER. I’M LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING THAT DOCUMENTARY ONE DAY. THANK YOU. JAMESON BUTLER AND LOGAN LANE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME. APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. THEY RECENTLY TURNED THE LUDDITE CLUB INTO A NONPROFIT WITH BRANCHES IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.